Auto belay failure rate reddit. Annual service is an essential part of auto belay ownership, and buyers should be wary of auto belays with less stringent requirements. Atc will also fail in some cases if your seconds falls while he’s making his own clove hitch at the belay. Dec 2, 2021 · How Does Lead Auto-Belay Work? Skeptics, perform your finger warmup, navigate to whichever snide Reddit climbing forum you frequent, and get ready to type. Jan 15, 2024 · Photo: CityROCK There has been a lot of chatter about auto-belays in recent months, both in the media and behind closed doors. I have been climbing for about 2 years, but only bouldering and top roping indoors, and I have only ever used a typical ATC belay device, which I am very comfortable with. Feb 8, 2024 · An informal post on a climbing forum titled "Auto-belay Accident" is the most perfect, concise way to tell a reader, they are going to read about a climbing accident that occurred on an auto-belay. I'm visiting London so I've no belay partner and was looking for some auto-belay action. I have only gone bouldering and today I tried auto belay for the first time. Apparently broke legI just learned why the auto belay was attached to a big piece of canvas that blocked the bottom of the climb. The whole point of the auto belay is to walk up, clip yourself in (easy to do, it’s only two clips) and get going. Auto belay laps. 3M subscribers in the climbing community. I know that there are some Edit: There's actually an auto belay device on the routes to the right, where you can see the ropes touching the wall. A hydraulic cylinder assembly and a cable redirected by pulleys and attached to the climber are used in this system. Anyone have experience or resources on if auto belay is safe while pregnant with a full body harness? Compared to top rope I was thinking it has a bit more of a fall before the device starts to lowers you down. This is the whole reason for the belay loop. This held true for the lack of communication observed between belay partners, the lower-than-expected rates of double-checking safety knots while climbing with a partner, and climbers on auto belay failing to double-check their connection to the carabiner. If he falls and the clove hitch is not complete the carabiner will prevent the atc from blocking. I usually get those because my dog chews through the webbing eventually. She threatens to sue and they settle out of court (gym paid for nearly all of it) bc a lawsuit could have been more costly, caused the gym to close temporarily, and caused their insurance rates to go up. The reason for this is because when the auto belay is connected from the top of the wall to the ground, it is under a heavier load on it's coil than if the auto was left "up" (with the lanyard just barely hanging out of the auto belay canister). Posted by u/PatPikachu - 50 votes and 1 comment Using a throwaway acct to avoid alarming people I know. The furthest you can be pulled up is the first draw. The TRUBLUE Auto Belay requires annual service based on national safety standards. I much prefer the ones at Alexandria as Sterling pumps my arms out too fast, but they can be good in a pinch. Surprised to see anchor failure be the most common top rope cause of accidents, with belay failure way lower down. I have always wondered why certain pieces of climbing gear are considered too strong to fail, and consequently don't require redundancy. I've seen fall arrest devices for roofers etc. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. auto belay ?? New to climbing and the public wall has multiple autobelay systems. Both of those devices have a similar belay motion to an ATC, and they are cheaper than a grigri. If he slips, it's a bad day. Ironically, Johnston has been pushing for better auto belay practices for years. It functions as a tube device when belaying, and then allows you to belay up a partner in guide mode from the top, and it allows you rappel. Seeing auto-belay sections closed is a sign of good safety practice. Auto belay is perfect for any solo gymgoer who wants to get stronger. Set up above a particular route, the auto-belay automatically takes in slack as you move up. I enjoy top-roping and would like to get a few sessions in while I'm in London. 44 votes, 55 comments. 97K subscribers in the ClimbingCircleJerk community. The other SICG in Villawood has removed their auto belays in response. If OP is supportive of auto-locking belay devices but posted this anyway as “dissatisfying”, then they’re just being disingenuous, and trying to stoke controversy. ). Climbing gym question Is there any good climbing gyms in the area with auto belays installed? I go climbing alone 90% of the time and don’t wanna have to relay on someone else all the time. At my gym we tie into belay, so the belay test consisted of demonstrating tying into the harness, explaining how we knew everything is secure and then the belayer clipping in properly. The belay loop is the best example. Why do so many people not like auto-belays in gyms? Personally find them super convenient for training. The mom claims the auto belay failed, which is preposterous bc he wasn't even connected to it. The ATC-Pilot is hands-down the best belay device I've ever used. As somebody who uses auto belay a LOT, this was a bit worrying to hear but I‘m wondering if this It is an autobelay failure because the autobelay doesn't have a partner check like a traditional belay system. Scary stuff Mar 3, 2025 · Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers. Our Auto-Belay systems will make getting up the 40 foot wall hassle-free! Designed to lower children and adults at a slow, controlled rate, these devices are safe and easy to use. The intention of these guidelines is to improve auto belay safety by elevating the respect given to auto belays by climbers, and walls. Are there any cheaper alternatives to an auto-belay which would let me practice climb when I'm by myself? Those things cost thousands. Vertical World fully cooperated over many years of investigation. Although the frequency of auto-belay-related incidents is relatively low (compared to the frequency of auto-belay usage without incidents) — the severity of these incidents has caused many gym managers and owners to become extremely concerned. My first thought was to throw a guide ATC around the tree, so a) there's less room for error, and b) in the case of belayer failure, the system (in guide mode, mind you) automatically locks. but I don't know if they're intended for regular usage. Don’t be We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. For very unfortunate reason I will have to start climbing alone now. they also create a nice area on the floor that tends to keep people from standing under you, and reminds them there's a climber above. Over a dozen days on the harness I wouldn't expect a replacement from BD. Sterling has two, although both are on fairly negative walls. I never feel safe on auto belay, but usually when they fail you get stuck rather than deck. What this means is that if your second/follower falls, the rope will bind in the device on its own. truethe problem with ladders is that rude people can tip them over. Just wondering what everyone else’s Yeah, every climbing gym in the world uses auto belays these days and there have been zero issues. For the magnetic auto belays it is the same principle as in rollercoasters or elevators. 1. Sportrock also has a Facebook group to help find belay partners at either. If not, is pacific pipe the best place in the area? Sep 21, 2023 · In 1994, he also served as one of the original board members for the Climbing Wall Association. We came to the decision to remove auto belays. It reopens on Friday, Oct. Do you know how they failed? Looking at the design of auto belays there's not that much that can go wrong. Auto belay for climbing newbs? Very sporadic climber here. Just tie another belay loop in (9/16" webbing) and carry on. I hope this post isn't too redundant. It’s like anything with climbing on ropes, you just need to learn to trust the gear. The least safe, last-resort way we teach is to body belay off a tree. . That they rely on the principles of induction and magnetism, and that the break system is powered entirely by your weight due to gravity. Since I know that gravity and magnetism are fundamental forces of nature that simply don't fail, it really helped me with my confidence to trust in the device. I'm having a Found an auto belay system in your rock climbing gym but not sure how to use it? Need a climbing buddy to belay you but no one was available? Or maybe you are too shy to ask a climber in the gym for some help? Enter the auto belay, a rock climber’s answer to rock climb solo safely (not free solo though). I also kept getting smacked in the face and chest with the carabiner (is that what it’s called?). I wasn’t a huge fan. The confidence that the Auto Belay gives climbers is instant and incredible; you will find yourself wanting to climb up the wall just for the ride back down. Both Sportrocks have auto belays. Oct 25, 2021 · In reply to Wire Shark: The 'SafeWork' mentioned in the article is a government department in NSW investigating the incident. 289 votes, 29 comments. So that's how it pulls in slack. Sep 27, 2023 · Vertical World and C3 Manufacturing recently agreed to pay a climber $6 million, one of the largest settlements in the climbing gym industry’s history, following an auto belay accident. The reverso is made for multipitch climbing. 22. there's also the bad luck aspect to consider. 112 votes, 17 comments. I feel like a lot of the issue is from people learning to belay on auto locking devices, so there's much less pressure to get it right the first time, everytime. Oct 12, 2020 · Wondering what auto belays are? In this post, we detail what are the main types of auto belays, how they work and how to use them properly. The auto-belay slided left like one or two meters. One caused a ground fall from ~25 feet up, one instance was caught and after a couple tugs the system caught and the climber was able to be safely lowered and the third instance resulted in a down climb to safety. Alternative to auto-belay devices for at-home climbing wall? Building an outdoor climbing wall. You can easily take 10 falls in a single day of projecting, imagine if you got a catastrophic injury every 100 days of climbing? Jul 21, 2016 · Enter the auto-belay, a specialized device common in many gyms that takes the place of a real live person on the other end of the rope. I guessing it’s because most can’t take critique well when I try to correct their belay technique. Must have assumed magic would catch them?? Word on the street is an auto belay failure. freeloader is like 20,000ft that's a lot of ladders and hence a lot of bad luck! i think am elevator would be best. Auto belay machines will fail a heck of a lot less than your doofus buddy will. We can be confident of that Jan 5, 2018 · Secondly, an auto belay must be capable of enduring hundreds of climb per day in a high throughput facilities. I usually top rope with an experienced friend. I doubt the cable failure happened in the first few feet of rope near the climber. Warming up properly (keep intensity low for your first few climbs, if you're pumping in your first few climbs you need to pick easier grades). It seems almost everything here is owned by touchstone who doesn’t use them. 76 votes, 74 comments. Feb 6, 2023 · What kinds of Climbing Auto Belay exist? The hydraulic auto belay system is the most common type of auto belay system and can be found in mobile climbing towers at street fairs and carnivals. I tried to come up with a better analogy, but the best I could do is: It's like riding a tandem bike by yourself and only having control of the front brakes. 5 weeks in July for an event and visiting friends (lived there 15 years ago). Last night I did 1. They increase the safety and accessibility of rock climbing for both novice and expert climbers. The Belay loop is doubled nylon webbing to avoid it being a single point of failure. Let us explore some of the pros and cons of auto belays. 16K subscribers in the blackandwhite community. Oct 22, 2021 · Today, a Sydney, Australia climbing gym removed its auto=belays in the wake of a recent death at the facility. The failure rate is way lower than that. The home of Climbing on reddit. Based on both rumor and inference from the messaging, this looks like a fixed-gear failure, and no part of that system should fail catastrophically if maintained correctly. I have never worked at a gym before so I’m not sure how common this is. I'm only auto Belay certified in the gym but I wanted to try climbing outdoors! 1 0 Share Add a Comment Hi all, So I have read through a bunch of other threads on here about choosing a belay device, but I haven't found one that answers all of my questions yet. If you do clip it to your belay loop, you climb, it reels up, you come back down safely. In through nose!!! Learning to manage fatigue on the wall, so finding good rest spots, shaking out. Auto Belay Accident—Climber Fell 45 ft due to tiny distractions leading to one big mistake in the gym See a fair amount of anti auto-belay comments. Old gym in MA had tons of auto belays. I always went with someone who can belay me before. You don't need to worry about a single point of failure with the belay loop. Good evening, I have a BYD Atto 3 on order in a small, hot country with bad traffic and worse roads. This is actually a complaint i've heard before, so it makes sense to me. e. What devices were used and what gyms did these accidents occur in? I started working as a contractor for Belay doing virtual assistant work in early February 2023. I searched the forum for similar posts and the FAQ actually asserts the too strong to fail idea. This is a reminder that you must stay focused on safety at all times while climbing, especially by yourself. They also have a large bouldering rock which is fun and has a lot of variety 416 votes, 242 comments. Local WA gyms remove auto belays due to what I can only believe is fear from litigation due to climbers misuse Jun 21, 2021 · The statement went on to explain that, though there “was no apparent equipment failure,” the gym owners have temporarily removed all auto belays from the gym floor pending the results of a “full investigation. Recently replaced my 10. I would suggest getting an auto-locking belay device. As with most auto-belay accidents, user failure is the major cause. I’m not sure, just how my gym sets things up I guess. You are far more likely to die driving your car anywhere than you are to die from the auto belay. Overall no helmet was a significant portion of all climbing accidents, nearly as much as rap errors. However, that kind of wear would easily be spotted during regular operations. Jan 25, 2023 · Your monthly dose of climbing accident analysis from the editors of "Accidents in North American Climbing. Any recs for a belay device that fits this rope a bit better? I’m talking about lead belay, brining up a second and We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. Typically, using the auto belay requires a really quick 2-5 minute orientation and demonstration and then you’re set to go. also handicapped-accessible stairs for people who want a more scenic hike up the mountain. I tried quite a few times to conquer my fear but I just couldn I will actually verbally say these to myself to make sure I’m checking each thing especially on an auto belay where you don’t have anyone to double check for you. r/fujix • We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. I'm sure the instructions that come with it include all sorts of CYA lawyer stuff, however. Like a white pillow sheltering me from the outside world. It has assisted braking but it probably isn't one of the top 3 the assisted braking devices on the market. At first reluctant to host auto belays in his gyms, he compromised with a stringent and required belay check that all members who wish to use the auto belays must undergo. I trust auto belays more than any human belayer. I think it’s natural to fear auto belays, especially as they feel so alien when you’ve been used to having a partner belay you. The climbing centre's instagram page reported 3 days ago that it was auto belay failure, and they've removed all auto belays and will never use them again in that centre. If they fail at either of those things, yes you could be injured or die. I'm a bit concerned about parts and labour cost together with the durability of the Atto 3. The number of auto belay accidents are increasing. I'm new to climbing, been going to a gym for 6 months and love it. In trad nearly half of all accidents were gear failure. I'm based in grad student digs near Victoria. Then, when you reach the top (or fall), it gently lowers you to the ground. Possible solutions would be to service the auto belay so the recoil moves with the climber, or to change the carabiner type to one that can not open against someone’s body. While they offer many benefits, there are also drawbacks to using an auto belay. I'm very paranoid about belaying accidents, and would like to find a device that can be used as a backup for a belay, to lock on the rope if the primary belay device fails and sets the rope free (whether due to user error, or being knocked unconscious due to rockfall etc. Absolutely. I had a hard time finding any information out there from actual contractors who work with them and their experiences when I was deciding to accept a contract with them. Alexandria has three normal ones and a small beginner one. This means that newer, less experienced climbers can tend to gravitate towards autobelays. I know about the bouldering spots around but find top rope more fun. The belayer's whole job is to manage slack and ensure that the belay locker is not getting unscrewed or cross-loaded. I asked why there were only three auto belays there today instead of the usual five and he said that two of them failed inspection and have been getting fixed for the past few weeks and may not be back for a while longer. When the climber falls, the force is transferred to the hydraulic piston assembly, and Hi folks, trad dad here. What gear is needed to use the autobelay system? Is purchasing used equipment a poor choice? My team has several methods of low-angle belaying. 2K votes, 928 comments. A common mistake while belaying a lead climber is to hold open the device the entire time, thus defeating the auto-locking Here’s my problem, that situation is annoying at best and seems very unsafe at worst. And yes we are scared of falling. Will be weird to belay from the top with. Apr 24, 2023 · The auto belay provides a controlled descent using magnets, centrifugal force, or hydraulics as a braking mechanism. They rate is on the V scale. Jan 5, 2018 · Secondly, an auto belay must be capable of enduring hundreds of climb per day in a high throughput facilities. Help Picking an Auto-Belay So I have an unusual request - I got thrown a side gig replacing some auto belays at a private residence. The grigri is the most common, but also the most expensive option. The person likely had not used one before. TRUBLUE Auto Belay - Beware. I always climb with my partner which has allowed me to avoid the autobelay system (scares me to just let go!). Are there any climbing gyms you can recommend that have auto belays?… Toronto climbing academy in East York has 10 auto belays with a few climbs each making 22 auto belay climbs in total. It FLYS thru my OG ATC, and is also pretty fast on my grigri2… I was embarrassed at how jerky I was lowering my friend. During my first climbing lesson, the instructor explained how the auto belays work. A newbie here. Jul 15, 2021 · Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers. Reply reply ppablo787 • We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. ]though Petzl recommends the device for use in both applications. The down side is, of course, the belayer. Mike is our patron, Honnold our saviour TL;DR: Why are some things considered too strong to fail? My apologies if this is sort of dumb. The data shows that these accidents occur among both new and experienced climbers. 0mm 70m with the 9. Oct 25, 2021 · While autobelays are safe if used properly, and current models have near nonexistent rates of failure, many gyms don’t require autobelay users to pass top rope belay tests, and/or have low (or nonexistent) age minimums for autobelay use. Feb 22, 2020 · Understanding auto belays can be a little unerving if you've not used one before, we cover how they work and how to use them safely. The carabiner is incorrectly loaded (triaxially) when you put it through the tie in points, so use the belay loop. In fact has one ever had a catastrophic failure? I have a lot of respect for Andrew, but this is a bit of a strange attitude to propagate. Most of these auto-belay accidents have been people who don't tie in or don't tie in correctly. Hey Tundrawolf_ This is from wikipedia: [. I can imagine that this can happen a lot when doing hard dynamic moves so I'm wondering: what do people do to avoid that? I'm quite new to auto-belay so sorry if it's a stupid question. Auto belay "TruBlue Speed" auto-belay fixed at the top of an indoor climbing route An auto belay (or autobelay) is a mechanical device for belaying in indoor climbing walls, in both training and competition climbing formats. I would say that operator error is much more likely than a mechanical failure. Bizarre it’s not standard The ATC Guide (specifically the guide), when set up correctly, is an "auto-blocking" (not to be confused with "auto-locking") belay device for belaying a second. Local gym in my area uses these auto belay systems, in the past two weeks they've failed 3 times. In reply to eijit: Last year, after a series of accidents/mistakes of this kind on their auto-belay protected wall, the Virgin gym in Sheffield asked us (Podsacs) if we could design some sort of physical deterrent to people setting off on routes without first clipping onto the auto-belay cords. Most of these are falls from the top of the wall due to failure to clip in, making them catastrophic. I’m not interested in bouldering much so auto belay is my only option. [1] The claim against usage for lead climbing is that since the device auto-locks, the belayer is required to hold the device open while feeding rope to the leader. 4M subscribers in the climbing community. The theory of this law firm was that an auto belay device produced by C3 Manufacturing, called “Perfect Descent”, failed to arrest the climber’s fall as intended resulting in serious injuries. The device enables a climber to ascend indoor routes on a top rope but without the need for a human belaying partner. The issue is I just can’t trust it and can’t let it go. Not ideal, but 100x safer than a counterweight. 7K votes, 163 comments. I took a leap and decided to accept. So I imagine there would be some light rubbing on that section. The Auto Belay changed the way the world looks at climbing, PERIOD! Before the Auto Belay safety system, the general public would not even consider climbing on a climbing wall. In recent years, auto belay devices, particularly in indoor climbing gyms, have grown in popularity. 3mm Edelrid Tommy Caldwell. A magnetic braking auto belay endures cycle after cycle without deterioration of braking performance, while friction devices will inevitably heat up and require the replacing of the brake pads. One of the more widely sold auto belays in North America was recalled due to a design flaw that caused some of the internal parts to wear more quickly than anticipated. Is there anything that's relatively easy to reach by public transport? I'm looking for a place with reasonable auto-belay facilities Hi all, I am currently in Perth and would like to climb a bit to stay in shape. It’s a rope route, auto belay. Had my first trip to The Castle in Hackney yesterday and luckily got there before 5 so I got some time in before it gets busy. ” Though auto belay accidents happen every year, deaths are uncommon. They have brand new true blues and hate the feeling of free fall that happens briefly at the top before the magnetic system engages. In my experience, autobelays always pull you up with a few pounds of force (which annoyingly sets off my balance) and they make some noise, too. Morning Mountain Hikei may be obsessed with fog. I had a hair-raising moment when I realised that the chap on the line behind mine had I’m wondering if practicing on an auto belay (since I have no climbing friends) to build my endurance/stamina and physical strength would be helpful to transition to bouldering? The idea is to have the psychological safety of the auto belay while I get into somewhat decent shape to start bouldering by myself. Reply reply 123_666 • there have been zero issues Failure to clip in is WAY more likely than equipment failure in autobelay accidents, at least with modern autobelays (the original versions had some issues but they weren't designed for climbing use and I haven't seen one in use in a gym in a decade). 541 votes, 190 comments. But my partner is not around and I want to go climbing so I'm going to brave the autobelay. 222 votes, 50 comments. " This month, we cover an increasingly common gym accident involving an auto belay; and the risk of rock fall at outdoor crags. The pilot wont let you rappel. you'll now need to take more time off to recover from your session than if you'd been sensible and finished earlier. There isn't anything on the market that remotely comes close to the ease of use for lead belay. What? No. Have the manufacturer's inspected the devices to determine whether it was a mechanical failure or operator error? Given the state of climbing gyms, I would assume the belayer or gym is trying to save face for neglecting to belay or maintain their equipment properly, respectively. However, I am looking to get 237 votes, 198 comments. However, what's the etiquette with autobelay? If I fall, do I need to get off and let someone else do the route? Can I try the route immediately again? How long can I stay on a route before I The auto-belay system has the cord clipped at an anchor point on the ground. Bouldering laps at low grade. Beautiful great feeling rope, but it sure is skinny. However, a lot of people are curious about how frequently and if auto belay devices can fail. However, if the staff said there was an accident, it suggests they weren't closing the stations regularly enough. The Harbor Freight auto belay is a little cheaper. I really really love climbing now and it brings me so much joy. There is no case where you can not not be tied in. It will also feel more comfortable/less awkward when you fall on the belay loop vs the tie in points. Dec 30, 2020 · The Fear Of Auto Belay 😨😰😥KsMd The edelrid ohm is designed for lead climbing (it clips into the first bolt), but you could use it for top rope as well, if you route the belayers end through it and put it into the first bolt as you climb past it. Atc style belay device will fail in some cases when you have 2 seconds coming to the belay horizontally (traverse) if I remember correctly. Reply reply traddad • May 28, 2021 · Grasp auto-belays' benefits in climbing: no belayer needed, ensuring safety, independence, and accessibility for climbers of all levels. Has anyone had any reliability issues? Please state how long you've owned your BYD. Reply reply Think_Current101 • We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. The centre's got a decent number of lines, but most of them are in one alarmingly-tiny space. There's also the Mammut Smart, and the Elderid Mega Jul. No mention of the brand of device though. You unclip it, and tie it to yourself If you don't clip it to yourself, it reels to the top, you look like an idiot. However, lately I've been doing quick sessions alone in my spare time using the auto belay system. Learning to breathe deeply and slowly while climbing. 121 votes, 13 comments. In the comments I see a lot of people saying that they prefer non-breaking belay devices, which seems pretty obvious, but other people say that auto-breaking devices are safer, because they will usually break even if the belayer doesn't keep their hand on the brake. Hi, I'm based in Singapore but am in London for about 2. Do people just use it to do easier climbs where there isn't a risk of falling sideways? Just too bad noone wants to belay me. even if the cause of the accident was failure to use the auto-belay altogether. Maintenance requirements and servicing costs can vary greatly by product. I’m sure it takes some getting used to but I felt like the rope was pulling/holding me up some, so it wasn’t as good of a work out as bouldering. I was at the gym the day after the accident, and it was business as usual with all the auto belays in use, except the route where accident happened which I noticed was missing the auto belay. Bend Rock Gym needs to provide information about why this happened, including the specific mode of failure. On alpine routes where not being able to see or hear your partner is super common, belaying with an auto-locking device dramatically ups the safety margins and is well worth the extra ~7oz to bring a single grigri. The intensity on the auto belay at the end of your session is too low to stimulate strength gains, but it's also enough to hurt your rate of recovery i. Any gym owners or anyone who owns any TRUBLUE auto belays, they have/are just about to, issue a recall notice. Do any of the gyms within an hour of sac have auto belay or am I forced to talk to strangers? 189 votes, 148 comments. It's missing a key safety feature. hpy zuvoxu rro fktjbv bcvtst fzxj cvu imsxb tnliojs mnlte