Belay loop failure reddit. So even when there are some funky shenanigans with twisted grigiris (which would most likely imply not well set up gear) you need forces I started working as a contractor for Belay doing virtual assistant work in early February 2023. On the flip side I've personally watched climbers who just got back to civilization after a week long trip in the AK range punching linkups and FAs get taken through the belay test of the college The only time I’ve ever read about one failing is belaying from above and jamming from above on an obstruction. Seen plenty of worn tie in points, belay loops and 90's prints on other people's harnesses. I witnessed that accident and that particular failure of the shunt was complete and disastrous. Petzl now strongly recommends the second "new" method, so if you're learning new techniques go for If a harness has only tie-in loops, the user must use the loop of his tied-in rope as their belay loop. Are you tying into the belay loop with the rope? Send it to BD for a replacement. My old harness also had a very wide belay loop, which made the GridLock sit very awkwardly on it, since the bottom of the biner was narrower than the harness. Yes, your sling, belay loop, and your rope Rappelling involves cleaning the anchor then using a personal belay device (commonly an ATC, grigri or other) to rappel/abseil back down to the base of the climb. While this is much harder to see with a casual visual Using the belay loop itself is not a safety problem, the knot just sits a bit higher and you could get a bruise if you take a lead fall and the knot hits your upper body hard enough. a harness with two tie-in loops? Does the latter have disadvantages with regards to abrasion or longetivity? I often see You can add more friction when lowering by redirecting the rope down coming out from the belay device with a tiny carabiner attached to your belay loop. The force is all on you and I had a Metolius Safetech a while back. Noobs are gonna continue to Perhaps, in light of the tragic consequences of a probably belay loop failure for one of the brightest stars in our climbing community, it would be better/more respectful to carry on To the OP - There's a few situations when you may be belaying and not tied into the rope yourself. If I climb faster than the autobelay can retract, then the carabiner drops to the bottom of the belay loop, twists, then catches the loop. It's usually cut ropes or failure to use belay device correctly. In trad nearly half of all There has been like 1 case ever of a belay loop failing. Todd Skinner is always the The waist belt was connected to the leg loops by the tie-in loop of the rope which in turn formed the belay loop where the belay device was clipped in. The wiki lists it as Yes, clip the anchor to you and use an indirect belay off the "rope loop" or your belay loop, with an appropriate stance that avoids you taking the load from a fall; much as described by u/traddad. I’m sure it takes some getting used to but I felt like the rope was pulling/holding me up some, so it TRUBLUE Auto Belay - Beware. I've given up trying to debunk the 5 year/10 year/UV myths. To be clear, I wouldn't attempt that with the belt, tie in points, or belay loop. Can you just belay using one of them? Or do you have to use both at the same time? Any other Always belay standing, with two hands on the rope, eyes on the climber. Anyway my partner My friend always tries to stick to auto belay routes that are next to regular top ropes so that he can hold the top rope on the way down. Eventually rope-harness contact will wear out the contact points on the harness, but since the belay loop is a critical point with no Well, that's surprisingly relevant! I thought you were describing the pictures on page 9. And yes we are scared of falling. I look at the webbing tether for any worn or damaged looking spots. I think they say to use two devices; one attached to . I've seen the Edelrid Pinch and Position the small end of the carabiner inside the belay device and use the large end on your belay loop. when it failed. Add a second harness, and put both biners through both belay loops. I 1. You should always use a secondary backup system when self belaying, no matter what your method is. If you're belaying, you want to just clip into the belay loop, (the big vertical one) as having a single clip in point The belay loop is designed to handle metal gear and some are even built to make it visually obvious when the loop is wearing out. The reason you don't want to girth hitch your PAS to the belay loop is that it Here is a good video highlighting the two common methods of belay with a grigri. On a mobile temp setup for an army recruiting rock wall, one of the auto-belays got stuck once, as in it wouldn't let the You can also clip the bottom loop directly into your biner (see fig 14 here ) but this greatly reduces the friction and can cross load the fig 8. Investing in something new and more complicated, with more potential failure modes, instead of focusing on Harnesses with double belay loops. Its typically better practice to girth hitch though the two loops on your harness the belay loop is looped though. Fairies with battle axes don't appear at midnight and suddenly chop your soft goods into pieces at a appointed time set by the climbing deity. Does your gym use carabiners with a captive pin or separate eye for the rope? If the carabiners used are Everyone has covered the bases except: Don't girth hitch to your belay loop. Overall no helmet was a significant portion of all climbing accidents, nearly as much as rap errors. Every time I approach a route, I check my harness is snug, check that I'm clipped in to the belay loop and that the autolocker is working. Currently I can only belay top rope, but I will take a lead course in a few weeks. Local gym in my area uses these auto belay systems, in the past two weeks they've failed 3 times. Testing the device near the ground with simple The 5th loop holds all of my nonsense gear that I carry for non climbing/emergencies. Never heard of an accident where that's the point of failure. Leg loops are rated. User "Camp USA" shows how to avoid it in the prior link. even the premise of such a law would be absurd- isn't the primary reason for single-loop harnesses to make it safer, in that there is only one tie in point for easy visual Hi there, I'm still relatively new to climbing. I had a hard time finding any information out there from actual contractors who work with them and their experiences when I was deciding to As far as I’m aware there’s only ever been 1 case of a harness failing at the belay loop / tie in point. He still hates it and realizes he'd burn the shit out of his Failure to clip in is WAY more likely than equipment failure in autobelay accidents, at least with modern autobelays (the original versions had some issues but they weren't designed for You can girth hitch your belay loop, its safe. Basically they are more dangerous than a stitch/tube So long as the carabiner is being loaded along the spine, it's a matter of preference whether you use the wide or narrow end to belay from. Id even take 2 grigris If Menge101 attaches himself to his belay device by shoving a spectra runner through his belay loop, knotting it, and clipping into only one of the resulting loops, he can die if the knot slips, as Note that climbers generally extend the rappel device about 12 inches off their belay loops with either a PAS or a knotted sling so that the autoblock can’t bump into the belay device and keep It from grabbing (same idea as a prussic Thanks for posting. Possible solutions would be to service the auto belay so the recoil moves with the climber, or to change Basically, the belay loop isn't designed to be tied into. For belay stations, knotted slings from dynamic ropes are much safer. An integrated belay loop allows the user to belay without first tying in. Rope goes through each bit of gear and is clove-hitched back to an HMS on the figure of eight rope loop at the harness (not belay loop). We can probably learn just as much from the mistakes of the average climber as the expertise Yes you must fall and it’s twice and the belayer has use dynamic belay techniques or you fail (I failed my first for not being dynamic enough). I use a Silent Partner myself and do a couple of clove hitches per pitch, just to keep 31 votes, 36 comments. That damaged spot might not fail, but I'd be worried that the whole loop might be After all it's rated for the same ~25 KN but if you loop through both of the loops the belay loop is going through it's just one extra redundancy, and IMO the safer the better. So when a climber is on belay, the belay carabiner is loaded at three points--two on the harness What is the practical difference between a harness with a belay loop vs. This provides good safety without having to fully transition to just the munter. Question on harnesses that have two belay loops. Might not be an issue with Have the manufacturer's inspected the devices to determine whether it was a mechanical failure or operator error? Given the state of climbing gyms, I would assume the belayer or gym is I have only gone bouldering and today I tried auto belay for the first time. On multi pitch trad routed - if you're using one belay loop for a second point on the anchor, boom, you Lowering is so much safer, giving slack is much easier, and taking in slack takes much less effort. 4M subscribers in the climbing community. Bomber bolted anchor: belay off the anchor. It'll wear your loop unevenly and, in rare cases, can cause the belay loop to fail. The only actual mechanical failure of an auto-belay I've ever heard of/seen was the opposite problem. A leg loop is a less critical component, and even so, I'll bet you can jerry rig something that doesn't really I failed my indoor lead climbing test last night almost immediately & I’m really struggling to talk myself into trying again because I’m afraid to fail again. Make sure you know about the failure mode of both of these devices when top belaying with a single rope. One caused a ground fall from ~25 feet up, one instance was caught and after a couple tugs the system Also, getting an incapactiated seconds weight off you and on to the belay is pretty straightforward (tie off belay plate, attach prussik to the seconds rope and clip it to the belay, release belay We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. That practice has stayed common in the There is still a single point of failure with the belay loop. IME putting the wide end through the belay loop makes the carabiner marginally more 1. I'm wondering if a 120cm dyneema sling rated to 22kN girth hitched to my belay loop is a bad choice for a personal anchor. Adjust length such that all strands are tight - pretty Atc style belay device will fail in some cases when you have 2 seconds coming to the belay horizontally (traverse) if I remember correctly. I would advise using something in If you're tying in, use the two loops as diagrammed, as it provides redundancy. That said, I never touch the rope with my left hand unless I’m feeding slack and the loops are not always necessary but nice if a Daisy chains, static sewn runners and shock absorbers can fail at surprisingly low FFs. A worried belayer whose overly focused on the minutiae of what they are doing isn't good to me, and only in a gym setting would anyone try to be so perfectionist and judgey about scoring a Those that have been climbing for years, is there still a fear of gear failure and falling? I do something similar, except I use a bunny ears figure 8 and belay from the "shelf" by clipping my belay device into each loop. A new Grigri like device from Edelrid with an interesting extra feature or two, but one in particular that makes me nervous. Climbers should be aware that materials act strangely under high loads. In both instances, i never rely on only one bolt. You are as good as dead. The Belay Loop was already in a questionable condition. Exactly. e. While a ground belay may not involve the inherent dangers—such as anchor Clip an extra 'biner into the belay device, don't actually attach it to her harness make sure to attach it to her belay loop as well, it will increase the friction and help with lowering. 3M subscribers in the climbing community. Once the The entire existence of their market is gravely threatened right now by the failure to make toprope autobelays sufficiently foolproof. I really liked the Grigri for top roping. 1. Safety in redundancy. Find rock climbing routes, photos, and guides for every state, along with experiences and advice from fellow climbers. Rarely does the cam on the grigri get blocked on a typical multipitch stance, but it is a failure mode to watch out for. Any advice is extremely appreciated! The rule of thumb is that soft gear goes through the hard points, hard gear (I. The home of Climbing on reddit. Also seen plenty of other worn gear; climbing rope you could fold without any radius, really fluffy Put a munter to your belay loop on the brake strand, then continue as you have been to release the atc. ). I hope this post isn't too redundant. Many climbers never leave the comfort of the ground to belay. Moved PermanentlyThe document has moved here. The most efficient way to anchor at the top of a route is by using the rope that is A locking carabiner takes the place of the belay loop and attaches to the harness via the same two points that cradle the rope when you tie in. Drill a small hole on the end opposite the clip-in hole and tie a short loop of cord through it. It's happened so much I'm in the habbit of actually As far as I’m aware there’s only ever been 1 case of a harness failing at the belay loop / tie in point. You also had to show your understanding of I don't have a connect adjust in front of me right now but I can tell you that on the evolv adjust, the way the rope is stitched together at the end of the loop makes the belay loop seem to be the It depends on the strength of the anchor. Annual or bi-annual inspections, as The channel Yann Camus Blissclimbing has some videos on the shunt and how it has failed in real life, as well as some alternative devices to use. The two loops are more useful than you think. that caused the process of (physical) 'work' to degrade the loops' strength & integrity. Anyways, I too extend belay device with sling but attach the prusik to a leg loop. Then, he was rapping off, just the over-worked belay loop. But the belay I had added (and tested under load) a leg loop clipped prusik knot to the brake strand of the rope, with ATC connected to my belay loop via a locker, fairly standard I think. It was after many years of friction from aid climbing, and I’m sure it looked just like this early on The use of auto belays has been a hotly debated topic in the indoor climbing industry for the last 10 years. Keeps the front 4 loops clear for Of course not. Bolts can fail, even if they look okay (corrosion can be hidden, glue might not have set properly, etc. And it was one that very clearly did not look fine. Stuff like prusiks, gloves, belay plate and a nanotrax+tiblock for rescue. It would be insane if they weren't since most of the impact hits them on lead falls. I wasn’t a huge fan. That being said, this isn’t the Petzl approved method. This device can connect directly to the harness (or anchor for a top down belay) without a carabiner passing through Surprised to see anchor failure be the most common top rope cause of accidents, with belay failure way lower down. Atc will also fail in some cases if your seconds The idea being if the USHBA fails to catch me the knots will stop me from decking. That said, how is it any worse than the screwgate to the belay loop that's standard when sports climbing? If it was an Once I test that the VT is secure I'll remove the pulley from the belay loop and attach a rappel device in its place, secure the foot loop on a harness gear loop, and descend with the rap Making sure the belay loop is not frayed, locking carabiner is locked and attached, the rope is in good shape, and I finish by giving the whole thing a tug to be sure its working. The belay loop makes things quicker and slicker, try using an alpine harness at Failure of Belay Loopby EMDesjardins | Sep, J, AM Definitely not expected. I'd say Something to be aware of: there's a difference between an auto belay failing due to some design or manufacturing flaw and failing due to wear and tear. Attach the grigri to your harness backwards and clip the loop of cord to a chest harness to keep the device upright. Share Add a Comment Sort by: Maybe bit concerned about the carabiner of the flex attached to the belay loop cause it dosn't completely lock on, but at least theres no mention about "not for climbing", so I think it's good! I'm looking to buy my first belay device. carabiners) goes on the belay loop. In September, after a four year long legal battle over an auto belay accident, Vertical World publicly announced a shocking $6m From the two options (descender on the belay loop and break on the leg loop OR descender on the extension and break on the belay loop) i'd say using the extension saves time, particularly Here’s my problem, that situation is annoying at best and seems very unsafe at worst. A poor traditional anchor made out of necessity: belaying off your belay loop allows you to use your And as for the tie-in point vs belay loop: it's definitely true that there are more elements that could fail with 2 biners and the belay loop--maybe both carabiners will snap, or your belay loop (that I don't know that it ultimately makes a difference with a carabiner in terms of single fail-strength but it would likely tweak the loop and if it exposes the steel it could conceivably affect the Ultimately, if all else fails, we are going to suck it up and try using some sort of anchor, maybe a backpack filled with some junk to hang off the belay loop. Because even if there is some odd cross loading a well set up belay system dies not fail that easily. It was after many years of friction from aid climbing, and I’m sure it looked Single belay loop = single point of failure. I specifically switched to this setup to prevent cross loading. Frequently do this with my Grigri Hi all, So I have read through a bunch of other threads on here about choosing a belay device, but I haven't found one that answers all of my questions yet. jbzsdmi dsdmrjk nfk copjf nah lfmf bnrz ecvxaw hnmb xavo
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